Jeanette's perfect guy
Got a question off of twitter and I asked the person to email me, her name is Jeanette and she an Aussie girl. So make sure you add your own two cents!
Hi Mike,
I would be really interested in hearing the ‘master’s’ opinion on this topic. It’s just something that I’ve noticed recently and is starting to bug me.
I’m 25, working in wealth management, generally confident, like to look nice, am a fan of food, wine, shoes, socializing and sex….
Last serious relationship, 4 years, ended last October, we’d actually bought a house together (now selling it)
I loved him, had absolutely no issues about money, although I was always more driven career-wise. More than happy to split the financial responsibilities etc. At the end, I earned over twice what he did.
I got the feeling he resented me or was jealous or something to that effect because of my success. This manifested in ‘playful’ jokes about it, or even some put downs, masked in sarcasm/jokes. (Lots more in this if you’re interested). He also just kind of stopped trying to do anything for himself because he felt he couldn’t compete with me, so why bother.
From my point of view, I began to feel frustrated because I still wanted him to be successful in his own right, and was annoyed because I hadn’t changed as a person.
One shallow point – I also now wanted to maintain a lifestyle that he couldn’t keep up with. I felt I’d earnt it, and I shouldn’t have to feel guilty for enjoying the fruits of my labor.
Since then, been tearing up the singles’ scene (which is unbelievably fun btw…!)
For some reason, the ’so how much are you on?’ question seems to crop up with almost every guy I’ve dated so far – sometimes even on the first date, which strikes me as totally inappropriate.
One possible reason I’ve thought of is that maybe my presentation or the way I carry myself indicates a certain level of success, so they want to see where they rank…?
I’m now dating a guy casually (he’s a cop), and while I don’t want anything full on, we did have a few relationship-y ‘chats’, and at one point he said (I’m paraphrasing) “I feel like you’re in a league above me… you dress nice, have more social events, are successful etc… Sometimes I feel a little inferior… If you want long term then I’m probably not your guy.”
I’m so supposed that the money-divide can be a negative for a guy in this day and age – or perhaps he was just using it as an excuse. Whatever… :p
For the record, I’m not fussed about a guy’s earning potential – just their drive and ambition in whatever field they choose.
Phew… massive brain dump!
Feel free to chew on that and get back to me. Thanks for the interest and best of luck with everything!
Cheers,
Jeanette
Hey Jeanette!
Thanks you for your honesty about everything. I will in turn be as honest as I can. I believe that most of our frustrations with the opposite person is very much stemmed from us. Since I am learning about you through email only I am having to infer a lot of things so hopefully I get most of them right, please don’t offended if I misread something… Ready!!??
Okay a few very simple things here and a few more complicated ones. The simple one is you are not dating men that are socially suited for you. The guy you bought a house with you were initially matched with but this quickly changed. I personally really struggle with the same issue; I tend to out grow the people I am with. I am not happy unless I am learning and growing at a break neck speed. (See top ten reasons he is going to run screaming #6) Think of it this way… You are in college now, why do you insist on still dating high school boys??
So why are you dating HS boys? You are either dating HS boys because enjoy having power over them (and are at the same time repulsed) or have not realized that you are a college girl now. My guess is that it is a little bit of both. I think that in your rapid growth you got a bit used to passing people up. This had to be associated with a little bit of pleasure and a bit of hardening. You possibly are getting used to being the dominant one in the relationship.
I can sense that you are a little bit irritated and want these guys to step up a bit. I totally understand but it is very intimidating for men. It is like you are a pro kick boxer and you keep dating guys you can beat up. You have taken the male role from them and they are very unsettled by this.
What is the solution? Hmm…. You are going to have a hard time of things for one simple reason. You are highly assertive and are still growing. This means that whoever you choose is going to be dropped rapidly by you. You are also very fiery and taking on a male role. (see fire and water post) This is fine but you must realize that it limits the men you will fit. You have two possible matches, one is a watery passive guy, that is insanely confident, wealthy and non competitive. The other is the opposite, highly masculine and more fiery than you, moving even faster than you are. Honestly, I think the last thing you need is more speed in life. If anything I think your flames need a bit of cooling. Pick the guy that will slow you down and allow you to grow in directions you never thought of.
So what to do with the cop? Interesting that you found such a masculine profession to offset your own assertiveness. What to do? Move on, you are the cat and he is the mouse. Not the right guy.
One thing I always tell girls/guys, the perfect person is often very similar to one of your best friends. This is the kind of energy balance you need to be seeking in the opposite sex. Unfortunately it is harder to find this with guys/girls because sex and commitment gets in the way. With friends you can meet tons of wonderful people without this limitation. Using this knowledge allows you find a great person without having to sleep with everyone… (clearly my tactics)
On a personal note, you are very hungry in life, which is wonderful. So many people don’t have this drive and would kill for it. My question is, what are you hungry for? Where are you going? What is it that you want?
This quote is currently on my bathroom mirror right now and it is helping me get up the guts to quit my job and move to China.
“Don’t make your life’s focus about having what you want to have, this is empty. Rather be who you want to be and do what you want to do, this is where substance lies” –Tim Ferris author of the 4 hour work week.
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men and their egos. man mike i feel like going off, why you getting me all upset on a sunday morning.
i have never had this problem and even if it is a problem, i’ve never been made to feel like it is a problem.
men!
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go ahead, go off! I would like to hear what you have to say… =)
I understand the imbalance of money to a point, what bugs me is when someone is successful in other ways. I remember my mother doing wonderfully as an artist and was cut down by the person she was married to. He was creative as well but was not doing as well and this led to “comments”.
Heart breaking for my mother to hear this from the source that should have been encouraging her.
Yeah, I feel this woman’s pain. I tell you what is even crazier though, for me, it happens before people even know what I do or how much it pays. It turns A LOT of men off to see a woman has more earning potential than them, even before they know it for sure.
@Jeanette. I don’t really know what to say except echo what Mike already said. I also know what your response to him will be – how do I find men that are in “my league”? This is a problem if you also aren’t shallow. Like you, I find ambition and drive much more important than wage packet. And no, you shouldn’t feel like you can’t use your wealth – I hate it when people seem to assume because they are penniless (often due to laziness or lack of drive), they have the right to make snide comments when you do well. I have had the snide comments from men too, particularly when they hit on me and I reject them, “Oh you think you’re all that, you aren’t…” / “You’re so shallow”, etc, without knowing a thing about me… except yeah, like you, I probably give off that air because I am quite confident, well-dressed and intelligent. I have also had snide comments from friends – and I drop them for it, it’s not on, my true friends are happy for me. Just like Mike said, if someone is right for you they will be happy not jealous.
I don’t know what size city you live in, but maybe there are certain clubs that literally price people out the market. The downer is you are likely to meet shallow types at these places. The other option is something like one of those elite dating sites I see pop up on the side of my screen occasionally. Elite singles, etc. That might be a good bet if you don’t mind paying a hefty subscription and the standard pitfalls of internet dating (I expect it will be better though, given the price tag).
I met this guy recently who was an entrepreneur. Probably the first guy who pursued me that earnt more than me (pro rata, I’m part time). And I think Mike, you forgot to mention that a lot of guys are successful are used to being worshipped, so won’t be happy if that’s not the case where the girlfriend is concerned. I just thought, what a prick, I have a personality and career too! All he seemed to want was pretty arm candy that he could introduce to friends.
I think we are all looking for equals. But the standard power balance is that the man is more powerful / successful. For women who have these things going for them, it ends up being a real disadvantage. When guys have asked what I do, they instantly run off at the “self-employed” part of my job description. Same as you with the salary I think, cos they get some numbers in their head that are probably above what they are on. I’ve downplayed things in the past, but that doesn’t work, because they pretty soon notice, and i have the attitude that someone should be in full possession of the facts if they are to decide they want me.
I think you, and I, should stick away from these unambitious types though. They always bring it up in arguments, don’t they, and I think the resentment is unhealthy. I think we can go for fire or water. I tend to prefer fire (better sex), but like my water sometimes too. Key thing is its someone who we can respect, who can respect us without constantly getting funny about their insecurities. Even if they seem okay with it, as you mentioned, the practical sides such as sharing house costs etc, don’t work so well if one of you is much better off. So yeah, don’t ever push things if someone seems to think you are ill-matched. Drop it with the policeman.
Good luck, let us know how you get on!
@Mike, my mum is in the same situation, except my dad was in a non-creative career. He was never very ambitious, and his pessimism has oppressed my mother and myself to a lesser extent.
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This feels overwhelming in that there is so much information and so much is going on here.
I agree with you, Mike, in that Jeanette needs to be with someone who is going to go at her speed or faster. That challenge is what keeps a spark in a relationship, rather than the inaccessibility or aloofness that so many women mistakenly flock to thinking that the man will change for her “charms.” The key here is a good match, not a good catch, if that makes sense?
The cop is telling Jeanette, flat out, “I’m not the guy for you.” She’s already rationalizing that she can make this work. He’s given you your sign, girl. It’s there. Move forward because he’s telling you that it’s not your lifestyle that’s the problem–it’s that he isn’t able to resolve the personality differential in the relationship. And a relationship is that smoke that exists between the two people, not necessarily the two people, themselves. Let go, hon.
It sounds like it’s time for some good self-exploration. I’m hearing that you know what’s going on with your life, but I’m not hearing that you know yourself.
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@Jeannette–you might try joining social and hobby groups for the things you enjoy most when you aren’t at work. You know, a mountaineering group, ballroom dance lessons, a tennis league–something like that–and you could choose to join the higher end groups that you can afford with your income, thus leveling the income playing field. There would be like minded people there that you’d probably be friends with, which means there’s potentially a like-minded man who shares your interests and would be able to participate with you in them equally. Then you two can egg each other on to improve in all sorts of things, not just mountaineering (or whatever).
In my opinion (for what it’s worth), the best kind of partner is one who is confident enough to be able to accept when you want to push him along to excel and is also strong enough to push you along when you need the boost. And most importantly, he should be your best friend as well as your lover. Like Mike said, our best friends are a good measure of the type of person our partners should be, and I say there’s no reason why your partner shouldn’t also be your best friend. It sounds like a tall order, but it can work out that way: You just need to select the appropriate playing field for finding him.
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@Sarah, I really hope Jeanette joins us here! great advice for her! but wow… I can’t keep up with the long responses!!
Enjoy them for the time you have them, when they get needy and dependent, move on. Meanwhile look inside yourself and think about why you aren’t seriously considering a man who also wants the status and lifestyle that you want. Maybe the confidence is only evident when dating men that are clearly below you social status and you need to boost your confidence to go after someone who matches your drive and ambition. Or it could be a fear of commitment thing…oh wait, that’s me!
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@cara, hey! good to see you here again! I call dating below your social group, “trolling for suckers” (this is a bottom fish with a sucker mouth) my friend calls it “slumming it” Generally not a good idea! Fun to be in control but you feel like a real ass when someone falls in love with you but you can not reciprocate because there was only attraction and no respect.
Oh and with you on the commitment thing… gonna keep running!!
Glad to be back! Had to install a new hard drive and have been resetting everything and mourning the loss of all my ITunes.
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There is so much here to comment on…social status…wow…my feeling is money and things won’t buy true love. My husband and I both came from money and social status, but that kind of screwed us up thru childhood. Looking back, I wanted him to be successful, but I pulled my weight too. Just getting thru life when in our late 20’s and 30’s was the best we could do. Being best friends while still having our own friends outside of ourselves and truly being happy for each others successes and sad for the failures kept us together. I have long time friends that have tons of success and money and yet are not truly happy. Financial security is really nice, but giving is better. Social status equates to ego for me. Keeping up with the people around you. Knowing who you are as a human being is better in the long run. But I also know most men seem to feel “less than” if they can’t take care of their woman…because so often their career seems to make them believe that is who they are. Get over it boys.
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Wow, I’m totally overwhelmed by these responses…
For the record:
- Yes, get the humour of the picture (thanks @Mike), and
- No, not offended by anything that’s posted.
@Rose, so much of what you said resonated with me. I find a lot of people instantly assume that you’re a shallow type of person, just because you happen to be carrying a nice handbag. And this comes from women just as much as it does from men. Oh, and I too like the ‘fire’ types… (cos honestly, what good is water in the bedroom?!)
@cara, I think you hit the nail on the head (you and @Mike jointly) with the ‘fear of commitment’ call. It’s almost liberating knowing that I’m often in the driver’s seat and that someone I’m dating doesn’t have solid potential. Whoa… I just realised how self-destructive that sounded!
What I’m hearing from these responses is that I actually need to toughen up and grow up a little and take aim at a different caliber of person that what I’m used to, instead of constantly going back to the same gorgeous-great-potential-but-hasn’t-quite-found-his-way type of guy. No more fixer-uppers!!
Thanks for all the comments and for the great article!
P.S. @Mike! If I knew you were going to post my email verbatim I would have tried to make it more entertaining…
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@Mike–aw phooey, and here I thought I kept it pretty short this time…
@Jeannette–they’re/we’re all fixer-uppers to some degree, you just have to find someone willing to work with you! Good luck and have fun!
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@Jeanette Glad my mind dump helped. Yeah, I felt the same with what you said, it’s definitely a problem I’ve had too. Haha, do you tend to find this too: That the mothers unanimously love you, just the sons don’t? I always joke, if we had arranged marriages here, I’d be married 5x already.
They always seem to think, like me, that I can kick the guy into shaping up (metaphorically). But as you put, yeah, we should be looking for people who are good enough to start with. Maybe, as nice, successful people, we are falling too often into the maternal role, and a relationship is the one place where we need to be women, if not pampered, at least equals. I always find I am helping my best friends a lot though, so I’m not sure this best friend idea works all the time, Mike…
Do let us know how you get on though, maybe I can get some tips!
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@Jeanette Thanks for coming by and talking to everyone, really appreciate it. Your email was fine verbatim, gave readers a sense of who you are. Thanks so much for sharing your story. Please make sure you really define what you want from not on, Step three from this series
@Rose The friend thing works only if you don’t carry your dysfunction into your non sexual relationships =)
(looking forward to meeting you someday Rose!)
@Sarah you can be as long winded as you want sweetie…
@RTM the comment about money and social status I totally agree with. You sure feel it her close to LA sometimes. Makes me want to bike to Alaska to escape it all. Oh wait!! I am!
You could be looking at the male version of low self-esteem. It’s an epidemic among women and drives me absolutely crazy. It’s something that can be fixed with encouragement and advice, if they want it, but unless you’re looking for a project, you should move on as soon as you get sight of it.
I always love hearing women talk about themselves and their lives. It doesn’t matter if they do weath management or if they raise pigs. If they’re happy with themselves and what they’re doing, then they’re happy and following their passion in life. Unfortunately, lots of conversations take dark turns into “shoulda,” “ain’t,” and “never” territory and hours of putting themselves down. It’s sad because so many women are fantastic people with serious guilt and esteem issues.
It is, sadly, the same with men. Find a man who is doing something that he loves and it doesn’t matter how much you make or what your social life is like.
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